Anatolians as LGDs and training problems

[Ridgetop]

Anatolians are not like any other breed of dog, nor any other LGD for that matter.
I have written several articles about our Anatolians for the breeder's magazine. They start with the purchase of our first Anatolian. I need to point out that this was not our first LGD. Over the past 30 years we had 5 Pyrenees before purchasing our first of 4 Anatolians. I also had a previous 20 years experience training and showing Weimaraners. Those dogs were perfectly obedience trained, but that experience could not be applied to training LGDs. Anyone who thinks that because they have trained other breeds they can apply the same training methods to LGDs needs to reconsider.

 

[Baymule]

Heavy on the reconsider! I have long admired Anatolians, but after reading and researching, decided they were too much for me, so I started my LGD journey with Great Pyrenees, Paris and Trip. Those two were a handful in and of themselves! They are both gone now, they left their mark on my heart.

Then Sentry was added to the pack, half Anatolian, 1/4 Akbash and 1/4 Great Pyrenees. Then came Sheba, 3/4 Anatolian and 1/4 Pyrenees. Paris and Trip left for green pastures, blue skies and are waiting on me to join them someday. Finally and most recently came Buford T. Justice, registered Anatolian.

I’ve had dogs all my life, trained them to obedience, tricks and companions.

LGDs are nothing like any other breed of dog. They don’t need you. They work 24-7 and once trained, they don’t need you telling them what or how to do. My dogs trained me more than I trained them.

So for anyone getting their first LGD, please do your research. Read. Read posts here, feel free to ask questions, we are glad to help.

 

[Skiesblue]

I agree about difficulties with Anatolians. A few years ago the Kangal Club of America posted an article on their website about the pollution of Turkish LGD bloodlines with other Turkish breeds that were large, tan, and came from the countryside. They even had names of unscrupulous Turkish breeders who produced dogs for sale worldwide. I had two of the finest Anatolians and one of the worst. If you want one, go to an established breeder who has dogs with small stock. If you’re starting out choose another breed. There is nothing better than a good LGD and hardly anything worse than a bad one.

 

[Ridgetop]

If you’re starting out choose another breed. There is nothing better than a good LGD and hardly anything worse than a bad one.

Beginning with an Anatolian if you have never had any type of livestock guardian can be difficult. However, the secret to success is to buy from a reputable breeder that tests their dogs for genetic problems and has the experience to test temperament in pups. Not all LGDs from the same litter will be successful livestock guardians to the same degree, even coming from working parents. Some individuals will be disasters if you get them from a breeder who does not understand LGDs and the specific breed characteristics. There are too many people out there with dogs from an LGD breed who have litters of puppies to make $$. There is a lot of cross breeding going on between different breeds too. Since some breeds guard in distinctly different styles, this doesn;t always work out to produce effective LGDs.

We have had 4 Anatolians in the last 10 years. I only buy from one breeder/bloodline. All 4 are/were terrific. We also had 5 Pyrenees and a Maremma X Sar Planinetz during our first 20 years of small stock keeping. They were excellent working dogs, but we had a lot of trouble keeping the Pyrenees contained. All 5 of them were from the same working bloodlines. We prefer the Anatolians. Our Anatolian breeder kept in touch and was always available for help with training/problems. Over the years he has become a close personal friend.

Kangals are actually a color pattern of the Anatolian Shepherd. They have black masks and fawn coats un different shades. They originally came from the Kangal region of Turkey. They are registered separately as Kangals in Britain, but here in America they are registered with the AKC as Anatolian Shepherds. There has been a lot of squabbling in the various breed clubs lately about registration status of imports and their progeny.

 

[Baymule]

There is also a breed offshoot called Boz. These come from fighting lines in Turkey, where viciousness is prized. I do not recommend Boz dogs.

 

[peteyfoozer]

Definitely no Boz! My Anatolian puppy was born just before Fenny’s birthday. We will pick him up sometime in January. He will fill in now that my Maremmas are gone. I really miss those guys!

 

[Ridgetop]

Boz is another variant of the Anatolian Shepherd Dog. The so-called Boz is from another area of Turkey, like the Kangal. The clubs are arguing again about whether "Boz" dogs can be included in Anatolian registrations. Like @Baymule says many of these are from fighting lines bred to be more aggressive and savage. However, you also have to allow for the uprise in people who want to their dogs to have some special attribute - thus the "rare" classification in some offshoot of a breed.

In fact, our own Angel is out of a male that was the son of an import. The Anatolian Club refused to allow the sire's sire to be registered as an import due to infighting among club members. The reason they gave was that they felt he was a "Boz" and ineligible for registration as an Anatolian. Ridiculous as there is no recognized Boz breed. We bought her knowing she might not ever be registered; her mother is one of Erick Conard's dogs so we felt safe. She is an excellent guardian with a lovely temperament, perfect structure so the breed gene pool is poorer for not allowing registration of her father.

It is important to remember that Turkey's back country areas are not on a par with western countries that have had stud breed registries for several hundred years. Certain areas of the country were less accessible to obtain new blood so certain traits were intensified by a tighter gene pool there. Kangal and Boz dogs are from different regions where they have been bred to fulfill the needs in that area. Working dog in these areas were bred to local working dogs to produce a dog that was larger, more powerful, and in many cases more savage due to the type of predators they had to defend against. Large wolves, bears, and other vicious predators are still common in the Turkish regions where these dogs originated.

When buying an Anatolian livestock guardian, you need to buy from a reputable breeder who knows his stock. The reputable breeder will be willing to help you with any behavioral or training issues you may have. Trust me, even with a superb Anatolian you will have questions because Anatolians are completely different from other LGDs. This breed is not for everyone.

 

[SageHill]

. Those dogs were perfectly obedience trained, but that experience could not be applied to training LGDs. Anyone who thinks that because they have trained other breeds they can apply the same training methods to LGDs needs to reconsider.

I've had dogs all my life - at 5 I was "stealing dogs" on the Army base. Long story, but that was the beginning with a Boxer, then on to Vizslas (before anyone even knew what the breed was in the 60s) that hunted. After getting married a Collie x Shep mix, then Tervuren (bred, and raised until my line died out ) and now Laekenois. So I've got tons of experience with sporting and herding. I train all breeds that come to me for detection, have done a ton of obedience to the Utiliy (highest level). Judge herding, judge scentwork/detection. Yada yada yada - even before I came to BYH I knew that while I should probably have an LGD - I also understood that training one would be like nothing I've ever done. I've done all the other training forever (even when I was a little kid I was teaching dogs things) so alot of what I do is second nature. BUT -- I think that second nature and automatic response that has developed over a lifetime would not help me with an LGD and would probably be counter to what would be needed.
Could I use an LGD - sure, but I don't think I've got "it" to train one. I've been around a lot of them where I've judged herding trials - great dogs doing outstanding work, but not for me (hopefully I don't have to eat my words).
I guess my point is - especially to people just getting into this - even someone with a ton of experience, etc needs to totally think out what needs to be done, how, and the key - do you have the time, desire and perseverance to get what you really need.

 

[Ridgetop]

You might find with certain LGDs would not work well together with your Laekenois herding breed. The way those dogs runs around the sheep to contain them, an LGD would consider a threatening. Certainly, it would be considered confusing at best and antagonistic at worst. Some LGD breeds will be ok with other dogs, some are ok if raised with them as pups but some will not tolerate other dogs of the same size around their flocks.

I think it would be an iffy situation for you. But since you don't turn your sheep out in fenced pastures unobserved, you probably don't need an LGD. They are mainly for those of us that keep sheep out in fenced areas without protection.

 

[SageHill]

You might find with certain LGDs would not work well together with your Laekenois herding breed. The way those dogs runs around the sheep to contain them, an LGD would consider a threatening. Certainly, it would be considered confusing at best and antagonistic at worst. Some LGD breeds will be ok with other dogs, some are ok if raised with them as pups but some will not tolerate other dogs of the same size around their flocks.

I think it would be an iffy situation for you. But since you don't turn your sheep out in fenced pastures unobserved, you probably don't need an LGD. They are mainly for those of us that keep sheep out in fenced areas without protection.

Yeah - here would be an iffy situation - esp with the folks that come for training. The sheep are out all day - when not grazing they have barn, corral, and a "turnout/pasture" area (less than 2 ac I think). While I would like to see them from the house I can not, and it's 700ft away with stuff in between (and ya' know it's CA flat ). So there is ample opportunity for bad things. I don't believe the daytime area is large enough for an LGD. Though it would be a piece of mind.